The Chronicles of The Best They Ever Had

Everyone was filled with awe, and many wonders and miraculous signs were done by the apostles. All the believers were together and had everything in common. Selling their possessions and goods, they gave to anyone as he had need. Every day they continued to meet together with glad and sincere hearts, praising God and enjoying the favor of all the people. And the Lord added to their number daily those who were being saved. -Acts 2:43-47

Friday, November 18, 2005


Ok we talked about this deep-like in bible study.... mucho discussion about this.... read it and let me know your thouhts on it, and I will post again with what we talked about, but it is really long and I don't feel like typing right now.
Romans 9:10-24



At 11/18/2005 3:27 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Tell us more of what kinds of things you talked about (you could take discussion of this scripute in a bunch of directions!). I've got some ideas....but i'd like to hear yours first.


At 11/20/2005 8:11 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

The mana idea of what we talked about was how he created certain people to know Him,and certain people not to know Him. God also has certain people He loves and those He hates, such as in verse 13 where it says He loves Jacob but hates Esua. For example Pharoah. He cretaed pharoah to be evil and of hate. He did this so that He can show His power of pulling people to the top then making them fall to their lowest low.
That is pretty much what we talked about and how God already has certain people who wil be saved and those who will not be reached no matter what. So that is what we talked about and how our bible study leaer interpreted. How do you interpret it?

At 11/20/2005 11:06 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

So this can turn up some questions around predestination. A problem most of us run into is "Why does it matter what i do if i'm predestined to act as such?" The answer to this, i think, is that we are predestined but we have free will at the same time. Both are scriptural, as predestination is shown in this romans passage and free will can be shown in a passage such as Philippians 2:12--

"Therefore, my dear friends, as you have always obeyed—not only in my presence, but now much more in my absence—continue to work out your salvation with fear and trembling"

Also, free-will is supported by the OT scripture that says something like "Choose you today whom you will serve, as for me and my house we will serve the Lord." There is choice! So basically, free-will and predestination are inexplicably co-existent in God.

ANYWAYS, what i think we should focus on in this passage is praising God that we are able to be His children BY HIS GRACE. It is not by our ability to choose that we are christians. It is not because of our good will or any good in us that we chose God. Old Rabiis thought that it was because Israel was the only one to accept God's word that they were God's chosen people, but we of course know that it was only by God's grace that they worshipped him at all. So it is for us. Here is some commentary online that sums this up wonderfully:

"If you are a Christian, do not think it is by your will, or any good within you, that has caused
God to elect you. If that were so, it would lead to boasting and arrogance. Our spiritual birth is an act of God. What have we done that God should choose us? Nothing. We have done everything
that would cause God not to choose us. The correct perspective on election is to see God sovereign
over all things, and accept His mercy with humble praise and thanksgiving. God’s purposes are not clear to us, for we are not God. (see Isaiah 55:8-9) We will not know the ‘whys’ of all situations, nor can we in our finite thinking understand them."

"Whenever we think of election, we tend to focus on the negative, wondering why some are passed over. But the Bible focuses on the positive, saying that this is the day of God’s grace. The demonstration of God’s justice in judging sinners is an important part of what God is doing in human history. But God is also making known the riches of His glory in saving some. Why shouldn’t you be among those people? If all God wanted to do was send people to hell, He would not have promised us His love and grace. There would be no need for a Bible, for preachers, for a Savior. But God has given us all these things, and much more in order to know Him and receive Him. The message is: Repent and believe in Jesus Christ. Turn from your sin now. Today God is setting the way of salvation before you. God’s election is not exclusive, it is inclusive. God does save people. His election is extended to all people through the preaching and teaching of the Scriptures by the power of His Holy Spirit. The question is, what will you do with this knowledge?"

SECONDLY: I think that in light of learning that God did choose you, we should not be discouraged in praying earnestly and striving to overcome sin. Our verse for the summer at camp was all about praying earnestly and constantly. Jacob, for instance, wrestled with God and demanded a blessing until God blessed him. There's a parable about a woman who kept asking Jesus (or maybe it was a disciple?) to save her (or something...) and Jesus told her multiple times that she was not ready. However, after a while, he eventually said "okay" and did what she asked. So, indeed, God responds to our striving....pray earnestly and he will reveal himself to you. The scripture above even says that we should work out our salvation. WE STILL MUST TAKE RESPONSIBILITY FOR OUR SIN.

So i know this is huge....but this conversation could go on forever and i think its a topic worth looking into extensively. Let me know what you think.


At 11/21/2005 11:08 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Yea that defintetely makes more sense to me now. When we were talking about it, we didn't go over other passages about free will as it says here. That clears alot of what I was thinking up. ThanxLuke, and yes this is a discussion that could go on forever, lol.


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